Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Rachel Sass about the Inflation Reduction Act. They discuss the
National Make a Will Month
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreAugust is National Make a Will Month! Only 48% of American adults have
Estate Planning Bootcamp: Will
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWelcome back to the Wealth and Law Estate Planning Bootcamp! In this series
Estate Planning Bootcamp: Durable Powers of Attorney
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWelcome back to the Wealth and Law Estate Planning Bootcamp! In this series
Estate Planning Bootcamp: Health Care Powers of Attorney
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWelcome back to the Wealth and Law Estate Planning Bootcamp! In this series
Estate Planning Bootcamp: Revocable Trusts
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWelcome back to the Wealth and Law Estate Planning Bootcamp! In this series
Estate Planning Bootcamp: The Different Fiduciary Roles
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWelcome to the Wealth and Law Estate Planning Bootcamp! In this series of
Life Insurance for Foreigners
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent talks with Cary Stamp about the ins and outs of life insurance
Planning With Inflation
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent discusses how inflation is not a death knell to wealth transfer planning.
Trustees for Blended Families
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with T.J. Ryan about how to choose a trustee in a
Foreign Real Estate Ownership
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats about estate tax (and some income tax) risks to foreigners owning
Building a Modern Practice
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Penny Phillips about how she is building the modern registered
Building Generational Wealth-Rewind
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent rewinds one of our most popular episodes with Kyle Larson and Lily
Maximize Low Markets
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Deborah Plum about techniques to maximize wealth transfers in a
The SECURE Act Proposed Regulations
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent discusses the proposed regulations under the SECURE Act. He explains the rules
Trust Decanting
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Amy K. Kanyuk about trust decanting. They get into the
Crypto Currencies and Trusts
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent and Joel Revill chat about crypto currencies and trust administrations. They dig
Five Things You Get Wrong About Estate Planning
Estate planning can be a daunting, though important, topic. And, it is a topic that matters to almost everyone. Yet, so many people still misunderstand
CRT Rollovers
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Evan Unzelman about rolling over income interests in charitable remainder
Educating Youth About Personal Finance
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Doug Nelson about what has happened in the markets during
The Limits of GRATs
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent discusses the limits of Grantor Retained Annuity Trusts (GRATs). He talks about
SALT Deduction Workarounds
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent talks with Gary Fletcher about Arizona’s SALT deduction workaround, how to plan
ACTEC Conference Highlights
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent discusses some of the highlights from the 2022 ACTEC Conference, including Build
Ukraine
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent discusses the war in Ukraine, some of the issues and arguments that
Estate Planning for Women
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Patricia Annino about special considerations in estate planning for women.
Racial Inequality in Estate Planning
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent and Reetu Pepoff discuss racial inequities in estate planning in the United
Preserving Generational Wealth
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent chats with Frazer Rice about how to preserve generational wealth. They discuss
Sustainable Investing
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent chats with Lily Styrmoe about sustainable investing and ESG (environmental,
Charitable Remainder Trusts
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent discusses charitable remainder trusts. He covers how they are structured,
Planning in a Volatile Market
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the podcast Brent discusses how volatile markets, combined with low
2022 Market Update
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWhat’s happening in the markets this year? This week, Brent and Rachel sit
Financial Planning Tune Up
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreA new year calls for tuning up your finances! This week on the
Real Estate Investing
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWith the hot real estate market, we’re constantly hearing from clients about investing
Estate Planning New Year’s Resolutions
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent, Rachel, and Deborah get together to share a few New
What’s Happening to the Build Back Better Act?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreOver the weekend, the Build Back Better Act was dealt a devastating blow
The End of the Britney Spears Conservatorship
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThe Britney Spears conservatorship is finally over…or is it? On this week’s episode
Top Five Things to do Before the End of the Year
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThere’s just a little more than three weeks left before the the end
Podcast Highlights
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the podcast we share a few of our favorite highlights
Year-End Planning Around Tax Changes
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel are joined again by Darren Case to discuss
Money Saving Tax Tips
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent and Rachel chat with Shauna A. Wekherlien, CPA, MTax, CTC, CTS (aka
The Newest Tax Proposals
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreHere we go again–another round of new tax proposals! The House recently released
Protecting Against Elder Abuse
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent and Rachel chat with the incredible Carolyn McClanahan, M.D., CFP,
Billionaire’s Get Taxed
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent and Rachel discuss several themes circulating in the media (conventional and social).
What’s Happening in the Markets?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel chat with Doug Nelson on the status of
Catch the News?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent catches you up on what is happening in the news
How to Plan with Proposed Tax Changes
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWhile Congress negotiates the terms of the Reconciliation Bill and what tax changes
Directed Trustees
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreJenna Rubin joins the podcast again to discuss Florida’s new directed trustee statute.
Tax Talk With John Strohmeyer
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent joins John Strohmeyer on John’s show, Tax Talk, to discuss
What’s In the New Proposed Tax Bill?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreIt’s the moment we’ve been waiting for all year! On Monday, September 13,
U.S. & Canada Proposed Tax Changes
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWe’ve talked a lot already about proposed tax law changes in the U.S.
Wealth Planning & Cryptoassets
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreCryptoassets are all the rage in 2021. From Bitcoin to NFTs (non-fungible tokens),
Social Media Marketing for Professionals
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreLinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok–there’s so many social media platforms these days, but how
Building a Modern Estate Planning Practice
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the Wealth & Law Podcast, Brent and Rachel sit down
Britney Spears Conservatorship Update
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreHit me baby one more time–it’s another Britney Spears episode! There’s been a
Donor Advised Funds
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWe love talking about philanthropy and how individuals and families can incorporate charitable
Hot Planning Issues This Year
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreCan you believe it that the year is already half over? This year,
Personal Finance & Travel
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWith the world starting to open up, individuals and families are starting to
Buy-Sell and Cross Purchase Agreements
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreOn this week’s episode of the Wealth & Law Podcast, Brent and Rachel
Income in Retirement: Financial Planning for Life 2.0
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MorePlanning for retirement is one thing. But planning during retirement is another. This
Cross Border Investing and Retirement Planning
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel bring back Shiraz Ahmed to talk about cross
Medicaid and Long Term Care Planning
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the Wealth & Law Podcast, Brent and Rachel are joined
Hawaii Tax Planning
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Rachel and Brent talk with Andrea Carr about tax planning in
What’s in the Green Book?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent is joined by special co-host Gary Fletcher to discuss the
Must Have Estate Planning Documents
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the Wealth & Law Podcast, the ladies take over the
Life Settlement Transactions
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the Wealth & Law Podcast, Brent and Rachel sit down
Things That Grind Our Gears This Week
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreSometimes, it just feels good to get something off of your chest. So
The Perils of IRS Code Section 2104(b)
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWe hardly ever focus on a particular Internal Revenue Code Section on the
What We Know Today About the Proposed Biden Tax Plan
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThe Biden tax plan has gotten a lot of attention lately as there
Forming Your Own Non-Profit
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWe love talking about charitable giving on the Wealth & Law Podcast. In
New York Estate & Tax Planning
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the Wealth & Law Podcast, Brent and Rachel sit down
Incorporating Charitable Planning into Your Portfolio & Tax Strategy
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreOne of the most frequently asked questions we get from clients is: How
Building Generational Wealth
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreGenerational wealth has been a major talking point on the Wealth & Law
The Aftermath of Game Stop
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreCan you believe that we are already wrapping up the first quarter of
Attorney Wellness
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week on the Wealth and Law Podcast, Brent and Rachel talk with
The Power of Cryptocurrency
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreCryptocurrency is becoming increasingly more popular with many investors saying that it is
Top 5 Ways to Spend Your Stimulus Check
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreWith a new stimulus package around the corner, you may be feeling anxious
Does Your Estate Plan Think of Your Pet?
If you are a regular listener of the Wealth & Law Podcast, then you’ve probably heard our special guests in the background—that is, the family
An Estate Planning Attorney’s Perspective of the Britney Spears Conservatorship
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreOops, we did it again–we are talking about Britney Spears on the podcast.
Vacation Homes
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreAfter a year of sheltering at home, you are probably just as anxious
Demystifying Investments
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent and Rachel answer the basic investment questions they hear from
Time Is The Missing Ingredient
A significant amount of recent commentary has been devoted to Robinhood, the phone app that lets people trade stocks for free. It is heralded as
US-Colombia Cross Border Planning
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel chat with Rodrigo Castillo Cottin about US-Colombian cross
Could Capital Gains Look Like IRAs?
One of the Biden tax proposals is actually a two for one deal. Increase ordinary income rates to 39.6% and raise capital gains rates to
Generational Wealth
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel are joined by Anna N’Jie-Konte. Anna has decades
Community Property Hacks
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel chat about community property. They explain what it
Designating a Trust as the Beneficiary of an IRA in the Age of the SECURE ACT
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThe SECURE Act (remember that) has been around for one year now. To
A Lawyer’s Perspective on the Assault on the Capitol
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreAmericans across the country were shaken up by the assault on the U.S.
Improving Money Habits
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreIt is probably no surprise to hear that one of the most common
2020 Wrap Up
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week Brent and Rachel give their wrap up of the podcast in
US-Mexico Cross Border Planning (Part 2)
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreRachel and Brent are again joined by Fernando Barraza for Part 2 of
US-Mexico Cross Border Planning (Part 1)
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel sit down with Fernando Barraza to discuss challenges
Penalty Clauses
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreThis week, Brent and Rachel sit down with T.J. Ryan to discuss the
Digital Marketing For Lawyers and Financial Advisors
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | More
Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: Google Podcasts | RSS | MoreBrent and Rachel are joined by Olivia Roberts and David Joseph of Knockout